Can automating your sales processes help your business? And do you want to know a secret about closing more deals?
Better Proposals is a proposal management system that helps you close more sales faster. In this conversation, we talk about sales automations, closing deals, making proposals, and so much more. Adam even shares his experience about his business being bootstrapped.
In this episode, we discuss:
[00:52] The story of how Better Proposals started.
[02:35] Getting their first 100 customers.
[03:36] Their experience in being bootstrapped.
[05:52] Tools they use to handle their accounting.
[07:23] Top 3 tips for closing more deals.
[11:32] Sales automations and examples of this used by small businesses.
[15:48] The difference around closing the deal on the spot as opposed to sending the follow-up proposal.
[19:17] One of the biggest mistakes that you can make in your proposal.
[22:13] Their Proposal Writing University Course.
[23:40] Sourcing details in their data.
[26:27] Learning from his interests and applying this into business.
[29:55] The meaning of financial freedom for Adam and his status in achieving his financial goals.
Automating Sales Processes and Closing More Deals With Adam Hempenstall of Better Proposals
Announcer Welcome to the Bean Ninjas Podcast, where you get an all-access pass to see what happens behind the closed doors of a fast-growing global bookkeeping and financial reporting business.
Welcome to the show, Adam. How are you doing and where are you recording from today?
I am on the south coast of England, which is in a town called Brighton. So just grab out of London, draw a line down until you hit the sea, and that’s Brighton.
Awesome. So today, you’re going to share with us some tips on automating sales process and closing more deals.
So I’m interested; you’re the CEO and Founder of Better Proposals. How did Better Proposals come about?
Well, we run a software company and we’re constantly sending out proposals in the old school method of butcher it to death in marks of Word or Pages and then save it as PDF and send it and hope for the best. And we’ve really just gotten to a point where the values of the work were getting higher and higher and it was a bigger deal whether we want them or not.
So I just said to our development team that I wanted something web-based with some sort of exit tracking on them so I could see what they’d look at and that kind of stuff. So that’s exactly what we did. We built that as an internal tool.
And it was really interesting because, over a period of 18 months, people started buying the software that we were selling. And then, we were saying, “Can you get that thing built-in for us as well?” So we still just spend the entire time just integrating this internal tool we’ve made for ourselves as a sort of customized tool for our customers.
And we’ve just all gotten to a point one day where we said, “Okay, look. Let’s just throw this thing from a landing page together, put some ads up for something roughly related to proposals and see what happens.” And what happened was we got more leads in the 24-hour period for what is now Better Proposals than we had in the previous 12 months with the other business.
So we thought, “Well, okay.” That’s our, “Be smart enough to know we’re-getting-lucky moment.” So we’ve made the decision at that moment to transition to running the sort of software consultancy into running Better Proposals full-time and we’ve been doing that for the last four years.
Awesome. So you shared a bit about the launch. So how did you get your first, let’s say, 100 customers?
Well, actually, most of it was just cold email. We didn’t have like a list or anything to really start with or anything. We didn’t do a big pre-launch thing. It wasn’t a product-type back then. We literally just; I just went through; what did we do? Well, I literally just went on Google and just typed in web designer London and just went through every single result of an agency that I could find.
I found the CEO or Creative Director or Sales Person or whatever it was on the website and I just sent them an email. I sent them pretty much the same stuff but tailored it a bit. I think we did that for about six months. And yeah, that goes about our first sort of 100 customers, then it started getting a little bit of paid stuff. Yeah, that was pretty much it. It just all sort of took off from there, really.
And when it took off, were you bootstrapped or did you have other funding sources to help with the cost of advertising, or some may say the investment in advertising, and building up the team, and adding other features to the original idea?
So no funding and never will. I’m heavily against it and fully believe that business owners can be bootstrapped and probably should be. Part of that is that you get good at spending money and not making it and that’s all fundamental, I believe with it. So, no, completely bootstrapped; been profitable since day one.
The initial investment, if you like, was myself and my co-founder, Sabrina, working on the product to physically build it. But once we’ve kind of got to that point, we were just selling something we already had. So it was all just a case of iteration, building and check-up processes, having new features. Yeah, it was very much based on that.
I think the thing with; the difference between the bootstrapping and getting funded is when you’re funded, you don’t need to worry so much about anything. You can kind of just; if something needs solving, you can just throw money at it. If you’ve got it to stand and you can [Inaudible 00:04:58] a bit anyway.
Whereas when you’re bootstrapped, you’ve got to really consider every different or every decision. So are we going to build this feature? What direction is that going to take? Who’s that going to alienate? Who’s going to really like it? Now, you really start to consider these things.
So you slow things down; you take your time. You make proper, informed, educated decisions. And then you’re fully committed to them and you get everybody on board and you keep going.
In terms of growing the team, it’s only really actually this year that we’ve really sort of built a proper team out. Sabrina and I run this thing practically by ourselves. We literally, about 18 months ago is when we took on our first member of staff, who was Petra, that personally set this up for us. She’s our first member of staff and she joined the team months ago. So it’s amazing how far you can go on your own without needing to build a team.
That’s awesome. And I was excited to hear you mention that you were profitable since, really, the origin. I’m always interested in understanding how business owners stay on top of their finances. So have you got a team – an internal team in place to handle and keep tidy your accounting? What tips or tools do you use to help manage that within Better Proposals?
So, fortunately, being a SaaS business, so much of it is automated. In fact, it can’t be too much it isn’t. We know, we all just seem to like it in that way and because of the volume of customers being what? Nearly 9,000 customers now; you can’t have any of that manual because you’ll just lose track of it by the end of the day.
So we made a decision early on that we were not going to have any manual components to our finances. So we use Xero; that’s our sort of core accounting platform. We use that as well accounted to you, so all our traditional accounting is done through there. And then all of the reconciliation all comes from Stripe – that’s our payment processor.
And fortunately, those two talk to each other quite nicely and life isn’t too complicated. You don’t have to press okay on 9,000 reconciliation lines every single month. So, fortunately, that works out in our favour. But if it didn’t, we would absolutely do something to make sure that it was completely automatic because there’s no way you can have it all manual.
Absolutely. And then, it just gives you the time to focus on those things that matter most in your business. So I wanted to switch gears a little bit and talk about sales. So, Adam, what are your top, let’s say, 3 tips for closing more deals?
Closing more deals. Okay. So the first thing is doing a good discovery process. If you sell a service of any description and you’re not literally selling the same thing over and over again, I think, like sort of beans or something from the supermarket, then you need to be doing some sort of discovery.
That discovery could be recent where it could be two or three questions, but you need to be doing something. If you’re not doing that, you’re never going to put yourself in a position where you can understand exactly what the person you’re trying to sell to is trying to achieve, or what problems they’re facing, or what fears they have, or what emotions they are feeling around the problem that they’ve got.
So without good discovery, you’re going in completely blind. So if you ever have a situation where you’re having a conversation with someone; that sounds like a great conversation, and then they’re like, “Great. Send a proposal,” but you haven’t really gotten all the details. And then you send it; you’re flipping a coin on whether you’re going to get that or not because you’re certainly relying on something else. You’re not relying on your own self ability to sort of break down exactly what it is they’re trying to do.
So always do some good discovery. And if this is a new concept, you just search need-to-know sales discovery processes; that kind of thing at Google, and just get yourself sort of acquainted with that concept because without that, you completely fly in blind.
The second thing I would say is to make sure that you have empathy with the person you’re selling it to. So this largely comes from the first thing, which is making sure you’re doing good discovery. But having empathy is really just understanding we know where they’re coming from. So not kind of the surface level stuff but the deeper stuff.
So, okay, somebody might come to you and say, “We want more leads on our website.” “Okay, cool.” You could take it out of their face value if you wanted or you could dig deeper and try and find out the real reason that they’re trying to do that.
And often, what you’ll find is that it’s not often the surface level reason, which is, “We want more money,” or whatever. There’s tons of examples in my previous sort of life; kind of web design agency owner. And we would go in and people would say, “We want more leads, we want more this, we want more that.” But why? I mean, “You could just do this one thing and you would improve. And right now, it would be good if you want more leads.”
And it turns out that they were selling their company, right? So they wanted all of their numbers to look better even if it didn’t materialize. Interesting. So all of that stuff says when you understand that, the whole proposition that we were pitching at the time changed. Because we were like; okay, well, instead of being, “Certainly, this is going to help you get more leads,” “We’re going to help you sort of take the sale of your company in the digital form.”
So we changed the whole thing. So bear that in mind for these are the people that will keep you on the surface and not necessarily the reasons that are true. Always dig deeper, always ask why.
And I think the last thing is actually just ask for it. Tell them what to do. Tell them exactly what the next steps are. In my proposals I’ve sent over the years where there’s a bunch of information; some of it is good, some of it is bad. And there’s just no instructions on what to do next. You’re just supposed to guess, and it’s really strange.
So if you get nothing from this, just add a section to your proposals whenever you send them called ‘Next Steps’ and just make that a really simple page where it’s a very clear instruction on how to buy from you.
So think about instructions on how to use a toy something; like really basic English. Don’t make it complicated, don’t make it confusing; just add simple stuff. And that, you’ll find that the proposals will be far better received.
Awesome. So utilizing proposal software really helps drive some automation into a sales process. So could you share with our listeners what to you is sales automation and what are some examples of common sales automations being used by those small businesses that you’re partnered with and working with?
So I think the terms that was mentioned gets kicked around quite a lot. And I think it’s one those strange terms where I don’t think it really is what it sounds like it is. I mean, we have a completely automated sales process because nobody needs to contact the proposals in order to buy. It’s completely online. Any common SaaS platform, again, that’s sales automation, that’s completely to complete the automated sales process.
But if you’re an agency owner, or you’re a consultant, or a coach or something like that, you have to ask yourself the question before you say anything, “What can I automate here?” Because is somebody is going to come along and buy your coaching, or your design services, or your development centres or whatever it is without speaking to you, without having any interaction with you whatsoever? Probably not.
It’s probably going to require some part of you to do something as the expert and as the sort of consultative part of the process. So what part is going to be automated and that’s really the question. So that’s where a tool like Better Proposals comes in. Of course, there’s other; there’s Zapier and there’s other stuff that you can use to do similar things. But when you think about sales automation, what is it that you need to automate?
So my perspective on this is you want to automate the things that a computer can do either better than you or as well as. Or when there’s a trade-off there, it’s better to just let the computer to do it. But perhaps, the better way to look at it is what do you do best as a human that a computer can’t do? And that’s care – it’s understand, it’s think, it’s have the empathy.
So if you do that, and you think, “Okay. Well, I’m going to do that a bit, and I’m going to spend 80% of my time in my sales process connecting with my customers, connecting with my clients, thinking about them, understanding their situations, understanding their fears, thinking about their goals, their problems, the solutions.” All of that kind of stuff. And then detailing that. And then just say, “What system can we use to just handle the rest?”
That’s probably the better way to think about sales automation, I would have said. So, really, just think what are you best at and then just find a system or a solution to handle the rest of it. And then, you’re not going to end up spending a crazy amount of time weakening the part that you’re good at by trying to do something that isn’t really your bay anyway.
Absolutely. So if I’m effective at closing deals on one-on-one Zoom calls, as an example, it’s probably best to use sales automation on those things like arranging the schedules and identifying times that are accommodating for people to meet, and letting the automation work through the scheduling, utilizing tools like Calendly or integrations into Zoom to handle that administrative piece, but allowing myself the time to dig into the research, the discovery to understand, really, who I’ll be speaking with, and perhaps utilizing a survey that can pop-up to better qualify this in that discovery phase?
Yeah. That’s all good stuff. And I think anything along those lines where you’re just thinking, “Okay, what made that up? What systems can I get in to help me do the heavy lifting for stuff I’m not quite so good at?”
If you were improving your house, for instance, you would think, “Oh, I’m quite good at painting, but I’m not so good at tiling. So I’m not going to bother doing the tiling and pay a painter. I’ll just do the painting myself and pay a tiler.” And that end result would be better.
So a lot of it is just status. Everybody is different. You have to think about your own weaknesses, your own strengths, and then just kind of go from there. But don’t be afraid to spend money on these tools to help fill in the gaps so that you can operate at your best because they’re almost always worth every penny.
So I’m also interested in your opinion. I’ve heard two schools of thought where you may be on a one-on-one discovery call and the opportunity presents itself to close the deal right then and there. Our process at Bean Ninjas is that we suggest as a next step that we will provide a proposal via Better Proposals, and they’ll have the opportunity to review terms and conditions and the like; the investment that they’ll be making in the services that we’ve discussed and follow-up with a proposal.
I’m interested in your thoughts around is it more effective? Is there any difference around closing the deal on the spot as opposed to sending the follow-up proposal?
So I think that the way that you’re doing it is really good. I think the idea of doing it; having a review before you actually go through the proposal with them is a really, really smart move. And if you’re not doing this already and you’re listening to this, you really should be. So, I said, when you do this, by the way, is send them the proposal, but before you do that, send them the review form before you actually send it.
If you can’t rely through them on the phone or at the Zoom, then just schedule that call in advance and send in the proposal. That’s a much cleaner way at dealing with it. It avoids a lot of chaos and follow-up.
But, yeah. I think; let’s just take a scenario, right? So you’re on the phone with somebody, you’re not going to bother sending them a proposal, you only do it if they ask, but if you can’t close them there and then, then you will.
If you’ve got all of your contracts, services and everything set up, and you’ve got everything ready for them to sign and roll the rest of it on the spot, great. That sounds like a really confusing phone call. I mean, I wouldn’t want to do that live.
I mean, if you’ve got all that set up and you can prep it all in advance, and you’re really good on the phone, then maybe. But I think the biggest issue that I think you’ll have in that situation is [inaudible 17:52]. So I think we have a lot of deals falling out bad when they’re sort of almost pressured into doing it.
Personally, it’s not my style. I far rather have a certainly lower conversion rate with happier customers that have maybe considered their decisions to buy from me than have people who have kind of sort of not forced, but gently shoved in the right direction or what I consider it to be the right direction.
And then have people sort of reluctantly paying because all that’s going to do is just going to increase things like charged VAT and bank disputes and lots of potentially unhappy customers. And it’s just that I feel it’s a much better way is give them the benefit to say NO.
There’s a much value in that as there is giving them a chance to say yes because what you’re actually after, really, is a filter. So if you imagine your future business where you’re completely full; you can’t take on any more work and you look at your current list. Those people should be amazing people. They should be awesome businesses with crazy corporate jets and so you should be doing your best work for them. That’s what the ultimate is, right?
So anybody that comes in that is not going to contribute to that in the future, why did you want to sell to them anyway? So I’ll always give them the opportunity to say NO and do that in a way that they’re comfortable with, but obviously, give them all the good reasons to say YES as well.
And I think you shared really detailing up the next step. So I think for us, it helps us move them into the next phase, which is our onboarding phase where because those expectations were made clear in our proposal, there’s less of the back and forth during that onboarding around providing their clarity on what our expectations are for them to participate as in our service.
It’s very collaborative. “We need you to share with us certain pieces of information at certain times in order for us to meet the expectations that we’ve committed to within the proposal.”
Yeah, exactly. And I think also that’s another really, really good point, and that’s making sure people feel comfortable in what’s going on. One of the biggest mistakes that I think you can make in your proposal is by not actually explaining what’s going to happen.
So what you’ll find is that you’ll just get radio silence than people want to buy from you and whatever. But what’s really happening is they’re sitting there reading this and going, “Okay, cool. When do you want me to send this manual?” And they’re reading it and going, “Okay. Alright. I feel like I know what’s going to happen here. So should I buy this and then what? Could you suddenly magic this service at thin air? Like, that doesn’t sound right.”
It starts to create all this doubt. And doubt and confusion does not really result in people getting their credit card out. So you always want to make sure that you just have enough empathy and thinking about them, and thinking about how they’re going to be feeling reading this proposal, going through it when you go through it with them or whenever you send it to them. So that’s going through their own time either way.
They’re going to have these questions. They’re going to be doubting things. They’re going to be pessimistic about stuff, especially if you’re making bold claims. We all should; we all should be doing that as that forces us to step up and deliver. But at the same time, people are going to be scared to go. And there’s more people getting ripped off now than probably ever before because the barrier to entry to business is so low.
So bear that in mind, if you are a serious client, you have been around and you are good at what you do, then you have to do so, even more, to get in and over and above the people that are sort of lower-ranked on your level.
So being clear, being concise, listing out expectations, detailing process; I’m not saying you map with it, but you want to let people know where they are. If there’s seven steps to sort of achieving this end result, well, just detail what they are and put a sentence underneath to explain what’s involved and how long it’s going to take and whatever. It calms people’s sort of feeling of doubt and anxiousness around this kind of stuff. And long term, it’ll make a big difference on your proposals when you do send them.
So you’ve shared a bit about best practices and tips. Could you share a bit about Proposal Writing University? I’m interested; how does it work and how did you validate that there was a need in the market for this?
So Proposal Writing University is essentially just a free video course that we created for anybody who wants to learn more about how to write proposals better. So we have to; we have Proposal Design University and Proposal Writing University.
Design, obviously, handles all the design, which helps you on how to do it and things like that, obviously, specific to our platform. Proposal Writing University is a little bit more general in the sense that you could use the information sort of anywhere.
But it really just breaks down like which sections you should have in your proposals and how you should present information. If you’re going to sit in there in front of your computer going, “What do I say? How do I say it?” This is all answered.
So it just gives you a structure of, I mean, I don’t want to say fill in the blanks because it makes it sound too – that’s not really what it is. This is probably the closest thing you can get without anybody sort of physically writing things up for you.
But it’s a full start to finish guide on improving on writing proposals. So if it’s something that you do, I think the video is in a total of about 26 minutes, I think. So it’s easy to watch over and you’ll come out with a much better proposal in the process.
And I want to share, too. You guys have done an amazing job at recapping best practices. Each year, I seem to recall reading annual review of best practices or most effective strategies. And you’ve, in those documents, shared tips about placement of where to put your ‘Investment’ tab and when to create a ‘Next Steps’ tab. I’m interested, how do you source that detail?
That all comes from aggregated data in your account. So we collect all of that. We essentially ask our database, if you like, questions. So we’ll be like, okay, “Does looking across the hundreds of thousands of proposals that are signed on an annual basis, does it convert better if you have a video in there or not.” Yes or no? “Does it convert better if you send the proposal quickly versus say three to four days?” Yes or No.
And then, we start looking at the percentages and the increases and things like that. So we, I think, came up with 70 or 80 different potential points this year. And some of them are negligible. There’s nothing there, so we don’t report them.
But the things that are stand-out and the things that have moved the needle quite a bit and that are quite easy to do and quite easy to implement; we compile them in the report. So I’m sure we can share the link somewhere. But if you go to BetterProposals.io/reports, then you can see the last years and this year’s also and you can compare the differences between the two.
But there’s some really good bits in there. But all of that comes from real data. So that’s real live proposals that we’ve aggregated across, let’s just say, hundreds of thousands of signed proposals to create a sort of definitive answer, if you like. Because this hasn’t been done before; there is no way anyone’s ever done this before because sales systems like this haven’t been around that long, really. And we find it’s all been able to sort of get somebody’s questions answered.
So a simple example is if you send your proposal in 24 hours, you’re 14% more likely to get it closed than if you send it within just three to four days, which is, on the face of it, totally reasonable by the way; three to four days. And it really just goes to highlight how important it is to strike while the iron’s hot and to capitalize on the momentum that you created on the discovery and their excitement levels. So that’s just one of, I think, 17 things in that report. It’s very much worth looking into.
Absolutely. Now, I want to switch gears a bit. Adam, you’re a massive lover of football, or we would say here in the States, soccer, and attending music festivals. Have you learned from either of those activities things that apply to your business or vice versa?
You know? I have, actually. I was actually just saying to a friend the other day how much; I’m surprised how much inspiration I get from festivals. So there’s a big festival in Belgium in Europe called Tomorrowland, and one of the things that really amazes me is the attention to detail that they put towards things that I’m pretty sure most people in the current state that they end up in would never notice.
And that sort of just, it goes through our mind, it reminded me of just – it really matters. The details really, really matters. So making sure that everything is on-brand; that always matters. I mean, I ordered a pizza, and the guy getting the pizza at the pizza oven, and Tomorrowland logo was in the boxes of the pizza because the super thin it leaves in there has got this box with the logo. So you got a pizza with the logo on the bottom pizza.
So you know when they see it, they’re going to shove it through their mouth. But it’s just one of those little things that it’s just details. And I kind of strive to put little details into Better Proposals like that, so that’s always really cool.
Production and live shows always amaze me; always been a super fan since about that stuff, so always try and do something cool when we sort of creating a book or when we try and create; when we write books or when we produce guides and things like that. We also want to do it in a really, really, really cool way. And a lot of sort of great colour inspiration and things like that has all sort of come from festivals.
But as far as football goes, I’m a goalkeeper. So I, on a good day, be hit by a ball, on a bad day, and this is me. So strange life. But I suppose, what you learn from football is 90 minutes is a long time and you might be trickle-down really quickly. But you stick to the basics of saving time, moving, pass a ball, move again, pass a ball, move again, it create space, get yourself some time, then you can do what you want to do.
And if you could only just sit with those principles, it should always going to be okay. And obviously, there is the unpredictable nature of sport. But again, it just reminds you that if you stick to the basics, you’re always going to be alright. And it’s sort of really easy when there’s sort of chaos going on, everything is just going wrong and it’s not good at all.
You can often find yourself soft of trying to do something strange or trying to do something to counteract that chaos. But the matter of fact, what you really need to do is just go back to the basics. And the basics of the basics, they’re the fundamentals; they’re the thing that is what it is that you’re doing. So all the time, you stick for the basics and then master them. You’ll pretty much always going to be okay.
Spot on. Well, Adam, it’s time for us to wrap up. What we like to ask our guests is what does financial freedom mean to you? So on a scale of 1, being just getting started, to 10, financially free, how far are you away from your goal and is this even a goal for you?
I’ll answer the second part first. It is. I don’t know if I necessarily define it like that or think about it like that, but for me, it’s just about choice. Can I do whatever I want to do? Do I look at the price of food when I order at a restaurant? No. If I want something, I’d get it. But that’s 20 years of running a sensible business; that counts.
How far am I away from my ultimate or financial goal? I suppose, probably 6, I guess? 7? I mean, doing well. But like, within a goal, you should sort of starting to get somewhere and then you always want to achieve more. I mean, one of the things that we’ve always said in our business is, “When we get to 10 grand a month, when we get to 10 grand a month.”
I mean, it’s like, there’s always that “when we get to, when we get to.” And that number just keep changing and changing and changing, and that sort of just goes silly. But, yeah. I mean, it’s one of those things. It’s a moving goal. It always changes. Whenever you start to get closer to achieving one thing, you do intend to move the goalposts because otherwise, you can’t really be bothered anymore. So you’re going to keep yourself motivated and you just want to do that is just keeping with the goals.
So I think, to be honest, what difference of goal for me, really, is just enjoyment. Because if I can’t enjoy what I’ve got now, then, no point. If I can’t enjoy this now, then what’s the point? So for me, it’s about learning to enjoy things no matter what they are. [Crosstalk 00:32:04]
So let me then ask, on a scale of 1 to 10, where are you on the enjoyment scale?
I’m at the stage of sort of competent incompetence at this point. I catch myself with my phone far too much. It’s just something that we all probably do; trying to mitigate that. So just trying to create your own rules like no phones in the bedroom; that sort of thing, that sort of when you’re sleeping. It’s that bad, ain’t it?
Yeah. I mean, it’s little things like that. It’s just, try to enjoy moments rather than things, and trying not to have instant gratification constantly being ticked because at some point, we will just move far too far away from what’s possible. So if something’s going to take six weeks to get there and it’s something that I really want, and I wanted it, then cool, I’ll wait six weeks.
So don’t get less of things just because it’s available. So it’s little things like that for me. I mean, the money side of things, if you’d ask me four or five years ago, it would have been a very different answer. I would have given you a number. But sort of having all been gone passed that now, it’s all really more about enjoying moments and not letting life pass in front of my face.
Awesome, Adam. It was excellent time this morning chatting with you. I appreciate you taking the time.
Yeah. Thank you very much for having me on. I really enjoyed it.
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